DISCUSSION: Dr. Stephen Rittenberg had several criticisms of Mme. Chasseguet-Smirgel's thesis. He questioned the importance she gave to the concept that the "pervert" wishes to "abolish reality." The wish to abolish reality is not necessarily pathological, nor its presence necessarily evidence of a thinking disturbance; for example, the wish to abolish the reality of infectious disease inspired the discoverers of antibiotics. An overall evaluation of the entire psyche is necessary for an assessment of pathology. To speak of a global wish to abolish reality as underlying social movements is questionable. Dr. Rittenberg's major criticism had to do with the evidence Mme. Chasseguet-Smirgel presented in support of a "primary" wish to scoop out the belly of the mother in order to return to it, and her assertion that "on the level of thought this primary wish corresponds to the rediscovery of mental functioning