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Introduction: This is the recorded spontaneous discussion of the papers by Drs Gordon, Morganstein, and Holmes. This includes the speakers, as well as questions/comments from the attendees.
Harmon Biddle: Thank you so much, Dorothy. So many thoughts and ideas based on our last three speakers: Dr. Gordon, Dr. Morganstein, Dr. Holmes. One of the things I was thinking about, and then we want to open it up for discussion: Dorothy, you talked about the loss of the self. And I was thinking about life and death, and I remember years ago when Bob Ursano and I were talking about the experience of trauma, Bob said to me, and it was one of the things that stimulated me to want to talk about trauma, “There has to be death.” And I’m thinking of it more abstractly than literally. The survival, the fear, that we’re all feeling in a very strong way right now with the pandemic and with everything that we’re describing, and also what Barnaby and Lewis talked about, about this idea, and Dorothy, too, the erotic element of one person dominating another. And if we go back to the idea of life and death and when the infant is born, there is the fear of death, and they are saved by the larger person who they both love and hate. What also, in this primitive state, is awakened, is their sexual response. And Lewis, you made it very clear that we’re not talking about adult sexual response; we’re talking about the beginning of a visceral—we are first and foremost a body ego, Freud said—a visceral awareness, so when people are confronted with trauma, it would make sense that there would be this erotic quality to it if we take it to the primitive. So, that said, we are open for discussion between Lewis and Dorothy and Josh and our audience and others, everybody.
Dr. Johnson: Something that struck me with our speakers, right now and in the morning and something that keeps coming to mind. We were trying to have Howard Levine come and he was unable to join us. One thing that he says is that trauma, wh